Honestly, I dont see 10 reasons to like it from that vid.. maybe a couple at most
10) production quality.. like the guy says, it has a production quality that you'd expect from a 21st century mmo.. which, tbh, I'd expect so, no awesome reason right there
9)music.. I dont listen to ingame music, never have, never will.
8)Content scaling.. I dont get that one. In wow, if i wanna try harder quests with harder mobs, I already can.
7)Dynamic events. Hard to say if I'd like it without trying it. It doesnt look that exciting, or offer any awesome rewards, or, if it does it doesnt tell u anything about it on that vid.
6)Dynamic combat. Might be ok if its as dynamic as they make out. Having dodge, block etc as dynamic moves and no auto attacking, doesnt sound that radical to me, I guess theyre just key presses and have gcd's and reaction times to them just like any moves in any mmo
5) No fee. Sounds nice at first, but with no money coming in how do they pay for servers, game development etc etc in the long term. Charging u for expansions and extras is pretty much same as charging a monthly fee, but less honest.
4)Scaling and art. Sounds nice. If its feels epic scale and looks nice, who can complain about that
3) PvP.. I still dont see anything awesome about that. Maybe it plays better than it looks.
2)weps and attacks.. doesnt look that different or radical, might not be same as wow does, but doesnt look anything new. System looks like many fps games.
1) No tanks healers or dps.. So what
10) A lot of other games failed, as the guy pointed out. His reason for it being awesome is because it's what you expect it to be. It's meeting the bar, so that's what's good.
9) Yeah... I tend to have music off too usually.
8) My impression of 'content scaling' is kinda like the normal mode / heroic modes in wow, but everywhere; not just in raids and dungeons.
7) The dynamic events do offer rewards, since they're the replacement to questing. You get XP, gold and I think 'karma' which is *I think* like a kind of rep-currency thing.
6) I kinda like the idea of not standing there and shooting. It's pretty much the same idea of "dps, then move out of the fire", but different, which I like.
5) Free to play should be ok. The first game was and it did quite well. And, being free to play, it's easily affordable The expansions will come with new content, much like WoW (where we pay for expansions as well as a monthly fee). Guild Wars 1 only had 3 expansions and it was released around the same time as WoW, and people still play it. It's not doing as well as WoW, but that was because of a lot of things that the game didn't have.
4) Yup ;D
3) Yeah, I won't know much until I try it. But, looking at it, it looks cool. There are some nice ideas I think, like the "battle royale server PvP" thing.
2) I agree that it's not anything revolutionary. In fact, it's much the same to how I have my UI currently -- only showing a few things that I need to see.
1) This. Is. Awesome. Queuing for an instance in WoW as a DPS is torture. Trying to make a raid and end up with 9 let down people because 1 tank didn't show up is extremely irritating. Wiping because your tank was **** geared, or because the healer couldn't play his class... Waiting around because either the tank or healer went afk for "a sec" and knowing that you can't take the next pull without them... Not having to rely on someone else makes it much more fun. It sounds like it cuts teamwork down, but it doesn't since you can still benefit a lot from having other people with you. You are, most of all, relying on your own ability to stay alive, rather than yelling at the healer or the tank, or a dps for not interrupting something. I much prefer this kind of play.
Also, people won't be saying things like "...this healer's gear sucks. Don't invite him, I want someone better!" because there isn't a healer.
On top of that; imagine a scenario where five people, let's say, Me, Alchy, Dan, Jon and Darky have all just made our characters for the first time. We want to go do an instance but wait... we have a rogue, a hunter, a warlock, a mage and a DK. None of them can heal or tank (you heard me) so now two people either have to reroll, or sit out. Not having to worry about that means we can just play whatever the hell we want, however the hell we want, with whoever the hell we want. If I decided to roll hunter again right now, then we'd be down another tank and it'd effect our raiding directly, if tanks weren't needed, then it wouldn't matter at all.
I tank by choice now, but I was forced to tank back in MC, AQ, etc., and then when Kara came there wasn't much room for DPS Warriors. If this 'Holy Trinity' had never existed, then it would have never have been a problem for me to just DPS when I wanted to.
Just my views on it, I agree with the guy making the video mostly.
Let me tell you this game works pretty cool, have not tried pve yet but the PVP is mind blowingly fun. I love the interactive combat system and fighting against other players really requires you to tactically use spells and dodges and such. Ofcourse wow does this as well but in a different manner
Blackvennie wrote:
Let me tell you this game works pretty cool, have not tried pve yet but the PVP is mind blowingly fun. I love the interactive combat system and fighting against other players really requires you to tactically use spells and dodges and such. Ofcourse wow does this as well but in a different manner
i tried pve at the eurogamer and it was amazing, to run around and think about the quests and skills was a refreshing change from wow's go here and kill/loot.
and alchy, the holy trinity change thing is something that the MMO genre needed to progress (thats my opinion). and joe says it best about queuing for a dungeon as dps, it sounds like preparing to have fun rather than actually grabbing a consorted bunch of missfits and making a dungeon work based on skill and teamwork.
gw2 combat system allows the devs to create potentially OP mobs that can one shot players who dont think, yet anyone with a keen eye and combat experience would know to dodge the attacks and try to kill. the game isnt based on random dodging or evading, the player needs to do that.
Blizzard seems to like the idea so much they are actually stealing it for the monk. the monk cant auto attack, heals others without targeting them. and tanks will now have to use skills to mitigate dmg and not just luck.
gw2 has so much depth in the world that i'm excited to just explore it just to see if there is a warband marching across the lands attacking and taking villages, or to find treasure in a cave.
and there will be a Live team adding new content/events/quests to the game without people even knowing about it until they explore the game.
a pvp argument comes down to this:
Dear Dev,
nerf Rock, Paper is fine.
yours
Sissors.
10- like nike said, production quality feels very poor in allot of games atm. from what we've seen and from past experience with arena net this isn't going to be an issue.
9- personal taste, music is very important to some people tho and the sound tracks so far have been amazing, which isnt suprising considering the guy they got in to do it.
8- okay, so what they mean by content scaling is firstly what you said about changing from heroic to normal (story > exploration in gw2) but it is also present in the events out in the world. each event will get harder depending on the amount of people taking part in that event. so a boss will unlock more abilities or change its tactics to suit the amount of players taking him on at that time.
7- the events are probably the thing I'm most interested in atm. its easy to implement content that's easy to get into and can be redone with a different experience a fair few times without you starting to feel like its a grind. and you get xp/gold/*rep* and items depending on the amount of effort you put in, so if u run in hit something then afk you wont get the awesome stuff a guy that ran in and helped the team and contributed well. the way they interact with each other means u can be running about and run into one and get sucked into a long story where all these different events lead into each other. if you've played skyrim yet u'll understand what i mean as "hmmm i wonder what that is" tends to make the next 5 hours disappear XD.
6- sort of right, its more reaction based than the more common 1 2 3 rotation types of gameplay. although I'm sure a 1 2 3 rotation could more than likely be thought up the content wouldn't suit it as the ai will be using its own abilities and spells that cant be easily ignored as u pound through everything. i remember in the demo i was doing an event just shooting everything i saw and suddenly i got rooted then another npc came up and smashed me around the face stunning me then another mob sprayed a nasty aoe on me doing a fair amount of dmg. all of which could have been avoided had i been paying attention and using my abilities .
5- its certainly a gamble but its one they have experience in and also one that has proven to be very successful recently. i always get the feeling that subscription game companies tend to get used to the constant flow of money, missing that i think puts pressure on the publisher to put out top quality content at a decent rate to compensate, which I'm fine with
4- agreed, the art style they chose looks extremely good and should last them a long time as more realistic games tend to look outdated allot faster. one of the reasons wow went with the cartoony look.
3- it'll be good for the real pvpers it just remains to be seen how the pve crowed will roll with it.
2- a new variation on the gw1 system, i like it allot purely because it means they can a- balance spells/weapons individually allot easier b- means u don't have a screen full of buttons you press once every hour or so and c- allows some nice fine tuning of how you want to play your char made even more in-depth with there "glyph like" system.
1-this one is pretty interesting.
means no waiting on specific roles and means certain roles don't get screwed over just because they like playing it.
will encourage group play allot more, especially as allot of spells and abilities actually work together across classes
takes the pressure of healers and tanks and evens it out amungst the whole group.
your still going to run into the odd bad group but i think making people actually think will improve the overall quality of groups.
think thats everything O_O
"Tanking is skill, Dps is science, Healing is art"
So for point 1, what exactly is the imba boss/mob/whatever, doing, that you and your non dps/heal/tank buddies are killing, I understand in wow, that a guy with big armour, and a shield, can survive vs some huge ass dragon, with some magical healerer dudes keeping him alive, whilst his dps class buddies kick the crap outta it.. I dont get so much that same dragon is gona be stood there, thinkin 'zomg, i duno what to do now theres not a tank, i think ill just stand here and wait for these random ppl to kill me and loot me'... I mean, ok, game isnt real, but imo, theres an element of realism and reality in wow, that makes it more interesting/amusing to play. Maybe I just dont understand the gameplay idea in GW
<edit> I mean, the ONLY reason WoW is so big and so long lived, is because of the necessity to form guilds, friendships and alliances ingame, in order to do anything worthwile. Without that, its just another random 'play for a few months then get bored and get next game' title. And I see GW looking to move away from that and give you just another one player experience.
Edited by Alchy on 15-11-2011 22:52
I understand what you mean, a giant dragon would 1shot an ordinary human. However, (going into a completely different thing altogether almost) Gandalf defeated the Balrog by himself by not standing there having a thumb-war with it, hitting and getting hit. He took a few hits, but in the end he beat the thing that could have probably swallowed him whole. The same kinda applies here, where you avoid taking damage as best you can, while dealing enough to defeat what you're fighting before you die. The bosses do kinda stand there I've noticed, but there are still loads of adds that run around after you, as well as other things happening in the fight that you need to deal with.
The point is to avoid damage that is going to pwn you. There are still a lot of things that are going to 1shot you in the game, so you have to keep on your toes to stop that from happening. You can also help make the event a bit easier, by providing buffs and things to the other people around you. Since there is no dedicated healer or tank, people will need to help each other.
I know what you mean about WoW playing on the fact that you HAVE to group up, but Guild Wars 1 had that to an extent and I hated it. To do any higher level content, you had to find other people, because the AI replacements were awful. While that persuaded you to play with other people, it prevented you from doing your own thing.
WoW feels somewhat like a chore. Like tomorrow, (Wednesday) I'm gonna log in and make the normal FL raid in the afternoon. If I don't it probably won't happen since it's likely that no one else will want to lead, and we'll be lacking a tank, leaving a lot of people disappointed and me feeling guilty. I'd rather that the 9 people could go and do the raid they want to do without me, a tank, and be fine.
With 'content scaling', boss fights will become more fun with more people around, because they become more difficult. So there is still an incentive to play with other people, but not a requirement.
I find myself in WoW sometimes wishing that instances were soloable, because I really don't like having to rely on randoms when there's no one else around. And there are times when I'm questing, and having another person with me is overkill, because a normal non-elite mob the same level as me isn't a challenge at all. In GW2; someone else showing up, or what would be a lack of people, doesn't change anything in that regard. So the game is a single/multiplayer. Now... while it is an MMO (the second M being Multiplayer) I'd still like to go and do something when no one's online, instead of not being able to. If at 3am in WoW, I want to do a troll, I would HAVE to get randoms because I can't solo it. However, when my friends are online, I'd rather go with them and play with them instead of being a loner.
In GW2 you're going to meet people out and about all the time since it's completely open world for the most part, so you'll still meet people, just like you do in WoW. People will still want to make guilds (if you can in the game, nothing has been said about it yet to my knowledge, but it's more than likely) for the fun of having all their friends in a guild, as well as other people to call on when you need help or just want someone to play with. People just won't be looking to join a guild because they HAVE to, which isn't much of a problem I don't think. While it might slow down some people making friends, it'll give people some freedom and breathing space.
I appreciate what youre saying, and yeah there are definate advantages to being able to play all the content solo, if you so choose, or if you dont have the people around to make a group happen. The thing is, I like being part of a raid, I like being part of a guild, and I like being part of a community. I enjoy the responsibility of tanking, guildleading, raidleading, healing, dpsing and not dying, or whatever it may be, and the fun that you only get from achieving tough 'epic' goals as part of a group of friends, none of whom I'd have met, or at least got to know as well as I do, from having to learn to team together and work together in order to accomplish the goals of the game. Community is the basis and the life of any good multiplayer game. And touching on boss encounters, I watched a GW2 boss encounter, some dragon in frog ppl area being killed. Dragon looked awesome, but.. It didnt do anything, it landed, kinda looked around it a bit and popped a few tiny adds outta the ground whilst roaring once in a while, while some tiny ppl stood around it shooting guns n stuff at it. Then it died. I appreciate that if you choose to not have a tanking class then you probably cant have dragon bosses directly attacking individuals, but, in that case it would probably make more sense to get rid of epic scaled bosses, cos, static dragon, sucks
What i am most curious about is how stuff will work. I saw the dragon thing you mentioned and now that i'm thinking about it, If the game is driven on dodging and stuff. Does that nog mean the every boss is soloable. As you can dodge stuff. And if a boss is not soloable how much damage do they deal. It is pretty much how many mistakes can a player make. The entire interactive combat system is pretty new in its roots and therefor i am quite interested in it. A lot of games are going to use this principle atm. So before i can get my hands on it i will have to wait before i judge how well it works.
You can still play together and coordinate with other players to kill things. If you want to play with more people, then you just do. Since most of everything is open world, you've not got too much choice in it. True it won't be AS coordinated as WoW in the sense that you're not assigning healers to heal what, or tanks to tank what, but I'll bet there will still be a good few pro guilds on TS together telling people to do this or that. Like I've said before, the buffs from other classes can help. The Guardian class can help reduce the damage everyone is taking, while the Elementalist class can heal everyone with splash AoE damage from water attacks; as well as other things like the Warrior's battle standard or the Elementalist's geyser. They all aid the group to help in taking down what you're fighting. There will no doubt be some content that isn't soloable by everyone. So some people will probably make guilds so they can play together with good people.
I do see your point in the boss standing there. And it does dumb down the epicness of the fight. However, the boss is doing a lot of things that you need to keep aware of. The boss you spoke about, Rich, does a load of other things that don't get shown often. I've seen the fight a load of times from different videos, and since they're always a ranged class, you're not seeing what's going on up close. I saw one where someone ran up to the boss, so the boss tail swiped it, or hit it with it's hands. One time I even saw it drop it's stomach down onto the ground as someone ran under it, crushing the person and 1shotting them. So there's still the aspect of positioning and not being a moron.
In WoW the tank pretty much holds the boss in one place anyway, so it's usually pretty static. Also, that boss is a mid-level world boss. It wouldn't surprise me if they add some things to it, like the boss flying around and landing somewhere else after raiding fire down on the players.
The Shatterer does do this already, however, he only flies up and back down after spitting crap on people. I wouldn't put it past ArenaNet to make them more mobile though, since these are only the early game bosses.
I played Classic until I was nearly level 60. It needs The Burning Crusade really for me though. I am lurking around Daggerspine again for a while, trying to get used to the changes lol
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The expansions will come with new content, much like WoW (where we pay for expansions as well as a monthly fee). Guild Wars 1 only had 3 expansions and it was released around the same time as WoW, and people still play it. It's not doing as well as WoW, but that was because of a lot of things that the game didn't have.
